The general advertising strategy of far-right speakers for the last few years has been to announce they’re coming to New Zealand, wait for their visa to be denied or their venue to cancel on them, and then use that free promotion and outrage generation (sponsored by the Free Speech Union) to attract a larger audience than they ever would have gotten otherwise.
I will sound somewhat naive but I often wonder at the state of these people’s minds when they appear to glorify or deny the worst aspects of human nature.
The horror of war and the belief systems that authoritarian regimes perpetuate are abhorrent to most people. Yet every day, somewhere around the world it continues.
I fail to understand the deniers and why they want to pretend atrocities didn’t happen.
As to Penk, he seems to be another of these people whose reality is adrift from the facts. This government seems full of them and the last thing they will do is take advice or take a reasoned view.
Totally agree Tony. Penk, Jordan Williams and other Holocaust deniers or supporters of, are scumbags. This government is appalling and every day there is a new low set by the CoC. My eyeballs are sick of rolling around in their sockets!
Candace Owen isn’t antisemitic. How could she be on a podcast with extreme Zionist Ben Shapiro for so long? She’s a libertarian fine - not my ideology, but she’s a lot less right wing than Hosking, Du Plessis-Allan, Plunket etc. She’s vocally anti genocide in Gaza and the corrupt US establishment which is more than I can say about our kiwi right wing stooges.
She’s not exclusively anti-semitic; that does not mean she’s not anti-semitic. The definition of an anti-semite is not “someone who can’t stand to be around Ben Shapiro”, that makes you a normal person.
She is a holocaust denier, blames the “zionist media empire” for her aussie visa being blocked, has defended Hitler’s nationalism by saying everything he did within Germany would have been “okay” (bearing in mind his genocide of the Jews began on Jewish Germans).
Aussie actually banned her because she would cause division in “every direction”, not just that she’s a holocaust denier. “Not JUST a holocaust denier” however is not a great a defence for why she should be allowed in New Zealand.
Does one talking point potentially taken out of context make someone racist/transphobic/antisemitic? Can you provide evidence that she’s actually a genuine or dangerous bigot and therefore likely to whip up racism discord where she goes? Before making judgement, I would recommend critical thinkers listen to some of her interviews in forming their views, she won’t be most progressive peoples’ cup of tea (she’s not mine), she says many things I disagree with, (I prefer following academics, UN meetings, geopolitical scientists, etc), however, when Owens has spoken on geopolitical issues, she’s mostly been on point.
(I can’t believe i’ve found myself defending Owens!), but I think the left is better to focus efforts more on stopping the defunding and large scale sell off of our assets and resources to foreign interests and ensuring we protect Te Tiriti from these right wing charlatans.
Sorry, are you trying to genuinely argue that Owens ISN’T racist, antisemitic, or transphobic? That is either disgenuous or very ignorant of who she is.
I do not doubt there is Israel partiality in Australian media as it definitely exists within the UK and the US because Israel is an important strategic and economic resource that the right are very invested in. I am also much more sympathetic than most on the left to accusations of zionist conspiracies because I can recognise the influence that billionaire Jews have had throughout history. I always have a half-open mind to these “cabal” accusations as a result, because I can acknowledge the partial truths that lie at the heart of them. It is not that she points out Israeli influence that’s the problem, but the way she shapes it into a cohesive rhetoric that calls for Americans to respond in a particular way that threatens to do harm, and how it uses truth misleadingly to incite anger. Whether she is wrong or deliberately lying, the outcome is the same and that is that she an extremist attempting to rile hatred and opposition towards a number of vulnerable groups.
I’m not trying to argue that she’s not a bigot, it’s just I’ve not yet seen any evidence (in my limited exposure to her) and it would be good to see examples in order to judge for myself. Do you have examples of how she uses “rhetoric that calls for Americans to respond in a particular way that threatens to do harm, and how (she) uses truth misleadingly to incite anger”? We certainly don’t want someone like that here in Aotearoa if so, (Seymour and his cronies are bad enough as it is), but it would be helpful to see examples of this rather than secondhand information.
The ADL link you included unfortunately doesn’t provide any evidence. It certainly criticises her of these things but then provides no links or videos with evidence. The reason I’m flagging this is that the Israel lobby and the Israel Department for Diaspora Affairs (now Ministry of Aaliyah) commonly employs accusations of antisemitism as a strategy for shutting down mostly justified criticism of Israeli atrocities and breaking international law. Evidence that this is a practice: https://x.com/DailySabah/status/1478077074233561107.
Being prejudice towards Jewish people for being Jewish or prejudice towards Judaism as a religion is antisemitic, being critical of the Israel government and it’s criminal actions are not, just like being critical of Saudi Arabia’s government/actions is not Islamophobic. Owens has rightly been critical of Israeli atrocities in Gaza and of the Israel lobby’s influence and power in USA politics, media, and entertainment. This influence is well documented and ironically not even in the USA’s best interests.
Btw, I’m not sure if you are aware but, the ADL organisation you referred me to, is linked to the Israeli state, it even says so on its website.
You’re welcome to seek out the evidence for yourself if my linked summary doesn’t satisfy you. Try google, or wikipedia has a long list of things she’s said and done with heaps of sources. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_Owens
In terms of causing harm, just to start with, she’s been sued multiple times for saying things that have lead to people being harassed + spread covid vaccine misinfo and was antimask + her rhetoric spurring on the mosque shooter. let alone all the rest of it.
Well, maybe. “Censorship is a normal part of ensuring wider freedoms, INCLUDING the freedom of speech.” I’m not so sure.
Look, I think nutbaggery is not a good addition to the quality of the ideas sloshing around. It’s a bit like sticking interminable ads everywhere - it’s dumbarse and distracting.
But censorship? No. I’m not for it. Like you say Sapphi, go online and fill your boots. There is gobsmacking rubbish everywhere.
I think denying the visa was an own goal by the civil service. I was one of the people that emailed Chris Penk saying: ‘bad look, let her in’.
Censorship draws attention to the act of censoring. It does not fight the ideas, and that is what actually matters.
Censorship is a part of balancing rights and freedoms — there’s no such thing as unlimited freedom of speech. We have a Chief Censor in New Zealand, and in fact the mosque shooting manifesto he banned 5 years ago references this woman.
Freedom of speech doesn’t apply to speech like hate speech, inciting violence, etc. It’s not a universal right, and it’s not to stop “rubbish” but to stop genuinely dangerous rhetoric than can, doed and will lead to persecution and violence against minorities.
The effective way to fight ‘objectionable’ ideas, is to do what you do. Speak to them. Counter them.
You are passionate and articulate, and you don’t passively sit by and let crap flourish unchallenged. You write. Other people march. (I’m not assuming that you didn’t join the hikoi, but your individual presence is much stronger here on Substack.)
The aggravating quality of not letting her in is not about her ideas per se, it is about the galling experience of receiving unwanted protection from exposure to them.
I will sound somewhat naive but I often wonder at the state of these people’s minds when they appear to glorify or deny the worst aspects of human nature.
The horror of war and the belief systems that authoritarian regimes perpetuate are abhorrent to most people. Yet every day, somewhere around the world it continues.
I fail to understand the deniers and why they want to pretend atrocities didn’t happen.
As to Penk, he seems to be another of these people whose reality is adrift from the facts. This government seems full of them and the last thing they will do is take advice or take a reasoned view.
Totally agree Tony. Penk, Jordan Williams and other Holocaust deniers or supporters of, are scumbags. This government is appalling and every day there is a new low set by the CoC. My eyeballs are sick of rolling around in their sockets!
Chris Penk is an utter disgrace.
Four people are sitting at a table. A Nazi comes and sits at the table. Nobody gets up to leave. There are now five Nazis sitting at the table.
Candace Owen isn’t antisemitic. How could she be on a podcast with extreme Zionist Ben Shapiro for so long? She’s a libertarian fine - not my ideology, but she’s a lot less right wing than Hosking, Du Plessis-Allan, Plunket etc. She’s vocally anti genocide in Gaza and the corrupt US establishment which is more than I can say about our kiwi right wing stooges.
She’s not exclusively anti-semitic; that does not mean she’s not anti-semitic. The definition of an anti-semite is not “someone who can’t stand to be around Ben Shapiro”, that makes you a normal person.
She is a holocaust denier, blames the “zionist media empire” for her aussie visa being blocked, has defended Hitler’s nationalism by saying everything he did within Germany would have been “okay” (bearing in mind his genocide of the Jews began on Jewish Germans).
Aussie actually banned her because she would cause division in “every direction”, not just that she’s a holocaust denier. “Not JUST a holocaust denier” however is not a great a defence for why she should be allowed in New Zealand.
Does one talking point potentially taken out of context make someone racist/transphobic/antisemitic? Can you provide evidence that she’s actually a genuine or dangerous bigot and therefore likely to whip up racism discord where she goes? Before making judgement, I would recommend critical thinkers listen to some of her interviews in forming their views, she won’t be most progressive peoples’ cup of tea (she’s not mine), she says many things I disagree with, (I prefer following academics, UN meetings, geopolitical scientists, etc), however, when Owens has spoken on geopolitical issues, she’s mostly been on point.
Regarding Zionist influence in Australia media, I’m not aware of specific details surrounding Owens particular case, but there’s actually evidence of Zionist influence occurring in Australia media including a current court case impacting a reporter dismissed for sharing a Human Rights Watch post accusing Israel of starving Palestinians. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-30/abc-hires-seyfarth-shaw-in-lattouf-unlawful-dismissal-case/103394616, there was also a letter signed by hundreds of Australian journalists concerned about Australian medias impartiality on the Palestine coverage ie, taking a biased Israel (Zionist) stance. https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/journalists-urge-improved-coverage-of-israel-hamas-war-in-open-letter-20231124-p5emmf.html.
(I can’t believe i’ve found myself defending Owens!), but I think the left is better to focus efforts more on stopping the defunding and large scale sell off of our assets and resources to foreign interests and ensuring we protect Te Tiriti from these right wing charlatans.
Sorry, are you trying to genuinely argue that Owens ISN’T racist, antisemitic, or transphobic? That is either disgenuous or very ignorant of who she is.
Evidence: https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/candace-owens
I do not doubt there is Israel partiality in Australian media as it definitely exists within the UK and the US because Israel is an important strategic and economic resource that the right are very invested in. I am also much more sympathetic than most on the left to accusations of zionist conspiracies because I can recognise the influence that billionaire Jews have had throughout history. I always have a half-open mind to these “cabal” accusations as a result, because I can acknowledge the partial truths that lie at the heart of them. It is not that she points out Israeli influence that’s the problem, but the way she shapes it into a cohesive rhetoric that calls for Americans to respond in a particular way that threatens to do harm, and how it uses truth misleadingly to incite anger. Whether she is wrong or deliberately lying, the outcome is the same and that is that she an extremist attempting to rile hatred and opposition towards a number of vulnerable groups.
I enjoyed reading your comment.
“I can’t believe i’ve found myself defending Owens!” I look forward to your upcoming paean on the TPB!
I’m not trying to argue that she’s not a bigot, it’s just I’ve not yet seen any evidence (in my limited exposure to her) and it would be good to see examples in order to judge for myself. Do you have examples of how she uses “rhetoric that calls for Americans to respond in a particular way that threatens to do harm, and how (she) uses truth misleadingly to incite anger”? We certainly don’t want someone like that here in Aotearoa if so, (Seymour and his cronies are bad enough as it is), but it would be helpful to see examples of this rather than secondhand information.
The ADL link you included unfortunately doesn’t provide any evidence. It certainly criticises her of these things but then provides no links or videos with evidence. The reason I’m flagging this is that the Israel lobby and the Israel Department for Diaspora Affairs (now Ministry of Aaliyah) commonly employs accusations of antisemitism as a strategy for shutting down mostly justified criticism of Israeli atrocities and breaking international law. Evidence that this is a practice: https://x.com/DailySabah/status/1478077074233561107.
Being prejudice towards Jewish people for being Jewish or prejudice towards Judaism as a religion is antisemitic, being critical of the Israel government and it’s criminal actions are not, just like being critical of Saudi Arabia’s government/actions is not Islamophobic. Owens has rightly been critical of Israeli atrocities in Gaza and of the Israel lobby’s influence and power in USA politics, media, and entertainment. This influence is well documented and ironically not even in the USA’s best interests.
Btw, I’m not sure if you are aware but, the ADL organisation you referred me to, is linked to the Israeli state, it even says so on its website.
You’re welcome to seek out the evidence for yourself if my linked summary doesn’t satisfy you. Try google, or wikipedia has a long list of things she’s said and done with heaps of sources. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_Owens
In terms of causing harm, just to start with, she’s been sued multiple times for saying things that have lead to people being harassed + spread covid vaccine misinfo and was antimask + her rhetoric spurring on the mosque shooter. let alone all the rest of it.
Well, maybe. “Censorship is a normal part of ensuring wider freedoms, INCLUDING the freedom of speech.” I’m not so sure.
Look, I think nutbaggery is not a good addition to the quality of the ideas sloshing around. It’s a bit like sticking interminable ads everywhere - it’s dumbarse and distracting.
But censorship? No. I’m not for it. Like you say Sapphi, go online and fill your boots. There is gobsmacking rubbish everywhere.
I think denying the visa was an own goal by the civil service. I was one of the people that emailed Chris Penk saying: ‘bad look, let her in’.
Censorship draws attention to the act of censoring. It does not fight the ideas, and that is what actually matters.
Censorship is a part of balancing rights and freedoms — there’s no such thing as unlimited freedom of speech. We have a Chief Censor in New Zealand, and in fact the mosque shooting manifesto he banned 5 years ago references this woman.
Freedom of speech doesn’t apply to speech like hate speech, inciting violence, etc. It’s not a universal right, and it’s not to stop “rubbish” but to stop genuinely dangerous rhetoric than can, doed and will lead to persecution and violence against minorities.
The effective way to fight ‘objectionable’ ideas, is to do what you do. Speak to them. Counter them.
You are passionate and articulate, and you don’t passively sit by and let crap flourish unchallenged. You write. Other people march. (I’m not assuming that you didn’t join the hikoi, but your individual presence is much stronger here on Substack.)
The aggravating quality of not letting her in is not about her ideas per se, it is about the galling experience of receiving unwanted protection from exposure to them.
I knew Penk was awful but not quite how awful. So gross that he's our MP 🤮